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Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.27 02:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, hate to stop the "BAN MITTINI" circlejerk, but now for a dousing of evidence and facts (scary I know)...
Quote:[21:10:18] Xeross155 > Heya [21:10:22] The Wis > Hello [21:10:29] Xeross155 > Getting swarmed with interviews I can imagine [21:10:50] The Wis > No why? [21:11:57] Xeross155 > With this BS and all http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/[21:12:21] Xeross155 > Pretty sure the name Mittani called out was "The Wis" [21:12:31] The Wis > Oh I will have to check that out.. What is going on? [21:12:58] Xeross155 > You sent him a mail when you got scammed and your Mackinaws destroyed or smth [21:13:41] Xeross155 > Or at least one of his alliance mates [21:14:13] The Wis > Could have.. been a long time. Might have been when they had the safe mining offer when you guys were doing your anti ice thing. [21:15:08] The Wis > I did have someone ask me if I was ok.. Becouse he said that I had killed myself afterwards and he thought it was funny.. I did not see it so I have no clue what was said. [21:15:52] Xeross155 > Basically some idiots are all butthurt and are calling for him to step down from CSM and **** [21:16:51] Xeross155 > Basically, enjoy your 5 minutes of fame, multiple gaming press websites are putting the story up [21:16:58] Xeross155 > Leaving out your name though [21:16:59] Xeross155 > one sec [21:19:54] The Wis > Well I am not sure what is going on.. I know I have had some people say I should put a pentition in. Witch I have not. Since I have not seen the video or anything. But that would also explain why the goons are moving into my system now and starting [21:19:57] The Wis > ganking here. [21:24:54] Xeross155 > http://youtu.be/E7Ki91U-mBE?t=1h11m55s[21:26:17] Xeross155 > That's basically the snippet that people are upset about for some reason [21:29:34] Xeross155 > Anyway, CCP is doing an internal audit and **** about it, 3 game news websites have reported it so far, basically tagging it cyber-bullying [21:30:50] The Wis > Ok.. Well that is nice. Hmm.. wait.. If i do kill my self they might arrest him and prosicute him since he is in the US.. That would really be bad for him. [21:31:01] The Wis > Just kidding of course but a thought.[21:31:20] The Wis > Fly safe. I have real life stuff to do now.. ANd to watch for goons in system.. Fun Fun.
The guy doesn't care. Even joked about it. The entire thing is so incredibly overblown, doubtless by those very people who detested the fact that Mittani was elected democratically for CSM chair (by a landslide). |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 02:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Henriette Malia Alette wrote:if you truly do mean youre apologuie, why the hell are youre minions moving in ?
1) Cool NPC alt.
2) You are aware that members of GSF are not actually bots but are, in fact, their own individuals capable of thinking for themselves?
You seriously need to think about getting rid of that tin foil, it looks rather silly. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 03:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
de4deye wrote:Convincing someone to commit suicide is not a laughing matter, mittani - you are a monster. Being drunk is not a sufficient excuse for your actions, there are no excuses here. A smug apology will not simply get you off of the hook.
Oh boy, how to pick apart this one.
1) He never used being drunk as an excuse for his actions, please re-read his apology in full. He admitted responsibility despite his intoxication at the time.
2) He did not convince anybody to commit suicide. The guy is perfectly alive and well (and now richer 10.7bn ISK).
3) NCdot. I'm sure you're not biased against Mittani in any way, shape, or form, and have no reason to push to have him removed from CSM chair. (Also, how's your Titan fleet doing? Let me know when you want to hand over more Gyrobus killmails) |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.03.27 04:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
de4deye wrote:this will not be simply smoothed over with his "I was drunk" apology, nor any other
The Mittani wrote:There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.
I'm starting to seriously question if anybody's reading the actual apology. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Havecandy Getinvan wrote:Also, CCP reviewed all of these slides prior to presentation.
Can anyone confirm this? I had thought it was supposed to be unfiltered. If this is true, this entire PR fiasco was CCP's fault for allowing that to go through, not Mittani's. |

Derrick Munroe
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5
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
de4deye wrote:It is only a matter of time before CCP shows an interest in this topic beyond an "investigation", as it is obvious and in your face. Mittens will surely not escape unscathed from what he has done so easily with his "Drunk, not my fault" excuse, 12 step AA is that-a-way --->
Am I gonna have to quote it again? I'm gonna have to quote it again... sigh. Ok, once more from the top.
The Mittani wrote:There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.
I'm not sure which part of that people aren't understanding. He's not using the fact that he was drunk as an excuse. Did it complicate things? Yes. But it doesn't make him any less responsible and he acknowledges that in his apology post (which I am now almost certain most people haven't actually bothered to read). |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2012.03.27 20:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Seleene wrote:OFFICIAL: The CSM are discussing recent events and will issue a public statement after a few days. #tweetfleet #EveOnline #csm7 #csm6
Hey, look guys, it's out of everybody's hands but the CSM's now. Stop the pointless arguing / forum warrioring. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2012.03.27 20:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh no! Not the banner of our publicly available forums! What shall we do?! :psyduck:
Next you'll be telling me that CCP's TOS applies to TEST's private website. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2012.03.27 21:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Everyone realizes that the presentation was made days, if not weeks prior to the event? This was not an off the cuff remark made while drunk, it was premeditated.
So why is CCP not at fault for allowing the slide to be presented in the first place? |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.27 21:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:2. Ban Alex and all his accounts sending a clear message that CCP does not tolerate cyber bullying with the intent to have someone kill themselves in real life.
...While simultaneously sending a message to over 10,000 paying subscribers that their vote is irrelevant and that they don't get a say in this year's CSM. What Mittens did was wrong, but he's apologized and the "victim" of the events is cool with the entire situation. While option 1 you listed would be a PR nightmare, option 2 is not going to be a particularly good outcome for CCP either.
Also, gonna go against what most people seem to think and say that I don't think any speakers should be allowed to be drunk while giving a presentation at any panel. Spirit of Fanfest be damned, you can get drunk on the pub crawl after. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2012.03.27 21:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Everyone realizes that the presentation was made days, if not weeks prior to the event? This was not an off the cuff remark made while drunk, it was premeditated. So why is CCP not at fault for allowing the slide to be presented in the first place? Good point. CCP is now going to have to vet every presentation. My guess is before they thought there would be no need.
I was under the impression they already did this...  |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.27 21:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fenris Deka wrote:Garadjanalhavar Arareb wrote:Andski wrote:this thread is killing me Someone help this guy and unleash the hammer upon those who are killing him! Why don't you hang yourself over it, you seem to be distressed.
Oh dear, that's offensive! Now, excuse me while I feign being mad so I can achieve my own agendas! |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2012.03.27 23:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:you've all abused the wis, and exposed him to far more ridicule then mittani ever did.
Hate to be that guy, but THIS. Not to mention the fact that Mittani also has been "harassed" multiple times in this thread, yet I don't see anybody crying out "cyber-bullying" on that...
By blowing this out of proportion the Eve community has done far more damage than Mittani on his own did, this thread should've been locked hours ago. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
supr3m3justic3 wrote:Razin wrote:supr3m3justic3 wrote:Razin wrote: The guy made an offensive comment at a gaming convention, in a gaming discussion forum, as a leader of an in-game organization, in a state of alcohol and in-game popularity inebriation, about some in-game events concerning a player. All the while the alleged victim of this heinous crime wasn't even aware that anything happened until some self-righteous assholes told him about it.
All your posts sound like you desperately want this to be RL stuff despite all the evidence to the contrary. Sounds like you've got some kind of an agenda, or you're just a cyber bully. Probably both.
Goons or CSM? It was during the alliance panel. You decide. CSM, because this isnt an alliance level issue.
Alliance, because he was at the alliance panel speaking on behalf of the GSF. Just because the man's on CSM doesn't mean he's perfect, and he shouldn't be expected to be perfect either. The fact that people are holding him to some higher standard above "regular players" shows how ludicrous everybody here is about the CSM. The CSM isn't some major congress, it's a group of 14 players who talk to each other, and CCP developers occasionally, to relay the thoughts of the masses. What the CSM is not and should not be: A 100% accurate representation of everybody who plays Eve, used for PR purposes. To expect that is preposterous. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Banjit Leelapun wrote:I don't think i have ever posted on these forums before, but i feel so strongly about this, and sorry, but i didn't read any of the BS above, but my 2 cents is this:
And i quote "except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said "
Then you sir are a danger to yourself and everyone around you. Intoxication of any kind is not an excuse, period.
Example: Damn, i ran over your child, well hell i was intoxicated, so should be able to get away with it :)
in short boot his ass ccp
Yay, I get to quote it for a third time. (Maybe eventually people will begin to actually read the apology instead of skimming and making assumptions)
The Mittani wrote:There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.
See that? In case you don't understand the big words, inebriation means drunkenness. In the above quote which apparently nobody bothers to read, Mittens states that he accepts full responsibility despite the fact that he was extremely intoxicated. He's not using it as an excuse, in other words. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:Banjit Leelapun wrote:I don't think i have ever posted on these forums before, but i feel so strongly about this, and sorry, but i didn't read any of the BS above, but my 2 cents is this:
And i quote "except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said "
Then you sir are a danger to yourself and everyone around you. Intoxication of any kind is not an excuse, period.
Example: Damn, i ran over your child, well hell i was intoxicated, so should be able to get away with it :)
in short boot his ass ccp
Yay, I get to quote it for a third time. (Maybe eventually people will begin to actually read the apology instead of skimming and making assumptions) The Mittani wrote:There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine. See that? In case you don't understand the big words, inebriation means drunkenness. In the above quote which apparently nobody bothers to read, Mittens states that he accepts full responsibility despite the fact that he was extremely intoxicated. He's not using it as an excuse, in other words. He also said he would step down from CSM. Still waiting.
This may come as a surprise, but Twitter is, in fact, not a legally binding contract. Whatever he says on Twitter, he isn't required to act upon, follow through on, or anything. Does it hurt his credibility? Yeah, it does. But don't expect him to follow through on something he stated on Twitter. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:
He also said he would step down from CSM.
Still waiting.
This may come as a surprise, but Twitter is, in fact, not a legally binding contract. Whatever he says on Twitter, he isn't required to act upon, follow through on, or anything. Does it hurt his credibility? Yeah, it does. But don't expect him to follow through on something he stated on Twitter.[/quote] This forum thread isn't a legally binding contract either, but we're supposed to accept his apology at face value. Why would his Twitter post be held to a different standard?[/quote]
I'm sorry, point me to where I said his apology was a contract? |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:Quote:
This forum thread isn't a legally binding contract either, but we're supposed to accept his apology at face value. Why would his Twitter post be held to a different standard?
I'm sorry, point me to where I said his apology was a contract? dont play the naive, you know exactly what he is saying
I'm sorry, but no I really don't. There's a difference between a personal decision to accept an apology on a public forum, and expecting somebody to follow through on something they said on Twitter. |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 01:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote: I'm confused. Did you not read carefully?
You said that since his Twitter post was not a contract, we shouldn't expect anything form him as a result of it. I pointed out that this thread/apology isn't a contract either yet we are expected to accept it, so why would the Twitter post be any different.
I'm genuinely confused by your reply. I never said you stated his apology was a contract, only illustrated that if we're to take this apology at face value then we should be able to take his Twitter post at face value as well.
I think the key difference in thinking here is that, from my perspective anyway, nobody's expecting you to accept his apology. Then again, my personal opinion is that this should've been a private apology, not a 170-page threadnaught on the eve-o forums. In his apology, Mittani makes no promises to do anything, he simply fesses up to what we can all say was a major slip-up. On his Twitter post, he mentioned a 3-step plan that he formulated and posted while still on the plane back from Iceland, and is being expected to live up to it. I don't see either as a legally-binding contract but an apology doesn't need to be a contract to be an apology. My $0.02. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
weat bix wrote:if they do not ban him then ccp is telling everyone it is OK to ask others to help you harass someone until they kill them self
Except, you know, nobody killed themselves over this.  |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
weat bix wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:weat bix wrote:if they do not ban him then ccp is telling everyone it is OK to ask others to help you harass someone until they kill them self Except, you know, nobody killed themselves over this.  so using that logic why do people get banned for threatening to kill someone when nobody has been killed ?
Because that's a death threat. Mittani didn't threaten anyone's life, he gave the guy's in-game name and told people to harass him. That's bad, but that's not a death threat, and it's far from murder. And your original statement had nothing to do with death threats, so... |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
de4deye wrote:Mittani must pay for his crimes and resign from the CSM entirely. Time to resign, Mittens.
Yes, we heard you the first 15 times you posted that. Contribute to the "discussion" (if you can call it that?) or get out. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Percy Highlander wrote:Big Country just interviewed Wis on eve radio 10 min ago ....listen for yourself ......they are harrasing him in real life ...Mittani crossed the line Have a link? Would love to hear it...
This is said program on Eve-Rewind, but it might take awhile to find the actual segment discussed (if it's even there, I don't know) |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 04:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
The EULA everybody seems to enjoy referencing wrote:You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances.
See that up there? Up to CCP to decide. And it appears they've let the CSM argue it out. Give it a few days, it's not in any of your hands, sorry~
|

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Triskian wrote:What about the guy from DNSBlack who actually assaulted Mittens during the panel by throwing stuff at him?
Got a source by any chance? It'd be interesting if that happened and everybody wasn't getting all ~internet offended~ over it... |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ashen Molotov wrote:Kallynda Nai wrote:Ashen Molotov wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:The EULA everybody seems to enjoy referencing wrote:You may encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language while playing the Game. You may report any instances of such behavior to CCP. CCP will investigate and take such measures as CCP, in its sole judgment, determines are reasonable under the circumstances. See that up there? Up to CCP to decide. And it appears they've let the CSM argue it out. Give it a few days, it's not in any of your hands, sorry~ True enough but what happened here was way larger then just some in game harrment. Anyone should be able to understand that. I actually like Goon and think it's insanely funny how they pretty much own EvE. To this point though it's been b/c of in game stuff. What this guy did though was completely and whole heartedly over the line. He EVEN ADMITS THIS HIMSELF ! For CCP to not remove him would just be unthinkable. What kind of message does that send? Maybe I will go to Fanfest next year and harress the **** out of everyone I see, as well as share their personal information and try to talk others into doing this until the person finally just kills themself. There is absolutely no way this can be defended by anyone with half a brain. You cannot tell me what he did was 100% ok. Therefore if what he did was not 100% ok then there HAS to be some consequences, period. Point to the timestamp in the video where this happened. It was my understanding he told everyone this guys real name and encouraged them to harrass him in and out of game. A persons name is personal information when it's involving a video game in which the only thing a person knows is your in game name. Regardless let's agree that no personal information was given out, does that still remove all wrong doing? No it does not. You supporters of this can kiss his ass all you want to but all it's doing is making you look like kool aid drinkers waiting for him to pass you the drink that will magicaly take you home to be with the Aliens in the sky.
You're missing key info then bro. He didn't give out the guy's real name, just the in-game name of one of the guy's 23 characters. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
michaelthered wrote:
people did email wis doing exactly what mittens told them to do. That's an inconvenient fact isn't it?
Cool. Evidence? |

Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Derrick Munroe wrote:
You're missing key info then bro. He didn't give out the guy's real name, just the in-game name of one of the guy's 23 characters.
Yet egged people on to harass him into killing himself for real......yeah you keep leaving that part out conveniently.
I fail to see how it's relevant to the conversation when I'm only pointing out that The Mittani did not, in fact, share personal information. I don't pretend to deny what Mittani said, you can go watch the video and see for yourself. But he didn't give the guy's real name and he didn't encourage real-life harassment. And as Andski pointed out, he's got 23 accounts, it's not too hard to block messages on one of them. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
michaelthered wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:michaelthered wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
I heard an off the cuff, tasteless bad joke. I must have missed the petition drive...
apparently you did cause it's there You "do" understand what a petition drive is right? yeah it's saying "hey everyone make sure you email this guy and tell him to kill himself".....lols, it wasn't meant to be taken as "literal" petition drive squarebear.
The more you talk the less I believe you actually watched the video in question. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Already watched the video a few times, and I watched it live on the HD stream. Still can't manage to find where he explicitly says "EMAIL THIS GUY AND TELL HIM TO KILL HIMSELF."
He gives the guy's account's name and encourages people to suicide gank him. CCP has already made it clear that suicide ganking is a part of Eve's gameplay. At no point does he encourage sending mail to The Wis nor does he endorse that type of behaviour. He simply gives the account name of The Wis. |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 05:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kallynda Nai wrote:Find him in game and gank him repeatedly.
Does nobody understand that this is what Mittani implied? When suicide ganked, The Wis made mention of suicidal thoughts. By making said reference, although in extremely bad taste, Mittani was essentially telling people to find and gank The Wis. If he was telling people to evemail and convo spam him, he wouldnt've said "Find him", yeah? |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 06:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
michaelthered wrote:At the time however he was following his script.
How could he have been following a script
If it was the audience Q/A session?
:psyduck: |

Derrick Munroe
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Posted - 2012.03.28 20:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
I too get internet-offended over a drunken joke. Jesus, the political-correctness level in this thread is soul-crushing.
HTFU -- CCP |
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